Thursday, January 12, 2012
Initial Impressions: Athena, Penelope, Telemachus
I'd like to use this thread to discuss your initial impressions of three characters: Athena, Penelope, and Telemachus. How does Homer present them? What does he emphasize about them? I recognize that we discussed these matters already briefly in class, but there is more surely to say. Consider, for example, their handling (or lack thereof) of the suitors? What seems to be the text's attitude toward these characters? Are they presented in a way that is sympathetic?
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My initial impressions of the three characters were probobaly feelings felt by my classmates as well but here we go:
ReplyDeleteAthene: Athene seems to me as the go-to goddess. She's crafty, efficient, and very helpful, especially to Telemachus. Athene seems to be one who takes action or motivates others to take action (giving Telemachus courage p. 87).
Telemachus: We previously discussed this in class but I felt the same way about how Telemachus should "man up." He seems to me like a pushover in a way as if he doesn't defend his house or even really tells his mother what to do. The text seems to me that Telemachus is pictured as a transformational character who will grow into a man as the story progresses. Homer also however depicts Telemachus in a sympathetic way since he is without his father and is unsure of his princedom.
Penelope: The wife of Odysseus seems to be a weave of manipulation and rebellion. We discussed in class how she defies the "Greek system" and refuses to go to her father. At the same time, I feel that she is genuinely clever for the sake of holding off the suitors since her son will not get rid of them. I believe that Penelope is hopeful that her husband is on his way home, and that is why she is presented in a way that is sympathetic as well.
I take pity on Telemachus and Penelope in Ithaca because of their struggling situation. However, Telemachus needs to stand up to the adversity in his house. Athene is just the goddess to assist him towards Greek manliness and help him retain his pride.
Homer seems to present Athena as a character who is very in-control of what's going on. She always has a plan and things generally seem to work out as she intends them to (like Telemachus setting sail to find news of Odysseus). She is clearly very clever and the text presents her in an overall positive light. Telemachus, in comparison, is presented as an image of Odysseus, though not yet complete. We see this when he speaks up at the council (as Odysseus would) but he has thus far remained inactive in getting the suitors out of his home (whereas Odysseus would be expected to kick them out as soon as he returns home). Penelope is a very interesting character because so much dialogue has been spent talking about her but has very few lines so far. She is presented as very passive, and doesn't seem willing to deal with the problems she is faced with. This is made evident in the episode with the shroud, when she weaves (and un-weaves) in order to delay the suitors.
ReplyDelete- Telemachus: I was impressed by how Telemachus welcomed Athena (disguised as Mentes) at his home despite how troubled he was feeling regarding the state of his home. Although Telemachus seems to be portrayed as a child who has yet to grow into a man, his tact and wisdom seems to emphasize his true nobility. I also feel that Homer does give Telemachus a sense of godlikeness throughout the readings so far: Telemachus was “handsome as a god” (book II: line 5) and was described as “a man like a god himself” (book I: lines 372-373) as he headed to meet the suitors.
ReplyDelete- Athena seems to be extremely clever in how she orchestrates the following events to lead Telemachus to seek his father. She seems to me as somewhat of a heroine, the one of first starts to help Odysseus return home.
- Penelope is definitely the character of which I am currently most confused. I feel that she is genuinely upset by her husband’s absence and probable death, but is there nothing she can do to reject the suitors? Through her encounter with Telemachus (where he instructs and encourages his mother), her passivity seems to be emphasized, along with her need for a man of the house.
1. Athena: The first introduction that Homer gives us to Athena is when she is standing up for Odysseus and his family, so I know that she has a deep affection for Odysseus and Telemachus. The text admires her and speaks highly of her. One particular line used repeatedly is, “her eyes flashed bright.” This gives me the image that she is full of beauty and vivacity. The lengths that she goes to in order to protect the family of Odysseus definitely shows her many talents as a goddess. She empowers Telemachus many times over so that he matures in his manhood and will eventually get rid of the suitors. The story favors Athena and her noble acts, as do I.
ReplyDelete2. Penelope: With the little that has been said of Penelope, I initially got the wrong impression. I took the side of the suitors who said that Penelope was leading the suitors on. However, I soon learned that she was doing such things for her own good, to preserve herself for her husband when or if he returned. Penelope seems to be an intelligent woman. She has had many misfortunes fall on her but she continues to stay strong. She is the image of the ideal Greek woman; she stays home and does as her son tells her. I believe the importance and audience’s affection for Penelope will increase in the rest of the story.
3. Telemachus: Book 1 presents Telemachus as a sad little boy. Athena finds him depressed sitting amongst the suitors, letting them ravage about and destroy his father’s house. Then, Telemachus makes a victorious stand and tells the suitors to go home. I believe that this is the point where he went from being a harmless member of the house, to an enemy in the eyes of the suitors. Telemachus also travels to see different kings in search of his father, and in the process he gains maturity. A phrase used multiple times is, “The boy that hero left a babe in arms at home…” This reoccurrence serves to show the distinction between who Telemachus was and who he is becoming. The text favors Telemachus’ growth. As a reader, I despise his boyhood state and am looking forward to the triumphant story of the growth of a man.
Athena: The initial impression I had from Homer of Athena is that she is the ultimate strategist. She epitomizes wisdom in the way she orchestrates the events in Ithica that lead to Telemachus to setting sail. The way Homer describes her led me to believe that Athena's appearance is of a woman in her prime, young and swift with her "eyes flashed bright".
ReplyDeleteTelemachus: I found Telemachus to be a "mama's boy" initially. I got frustrated with him not manning up and and not only ordering the suitors to leave but for also not sending his mother to her father's house as custom dictated. As I continued reading I realized that he was really a lion in the skin of a lamb in the way that his wisdom and cool headedness shines in the handled the suitors during the council. The text seems to put an emphasis on Telemachus and his continuation to grow into a man and into Odysseus' heir.
Penelope: At first I was, like Gayle Foote, on the suitors side believing that she was leading them on. When I learned that she was doing what she was doing for the good of her family I found myself cheering her on. Homer depicted her as an intelligent submissive woman; the ideal Greek woman.
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DeleteThe way I see it, I feel that Homer presents Penelope as somewhat of a pushover. In the example of the suitors, she has them as guests for way to long. If I had guests that were overstaying their visit, I would tell them to get out of my house. Instead, Penelope seems to ignore what they are doing even though they are depleting them of their family cattle. I feel that she should take control if Telemachus doesn’t, and kick the guests out of their house. I also do realize that I’m thinking in modern terms and the customs may be different in their time. As for Athena, I feel that she is a boss. She takes control of the situation if it’s not going as planned. Homer presents her as controlling and demanding of excellence. Telemachus on the other hand, also seems to be a pushover in the sense that he doesn’t take control of his household when the suitors are acting out of custom. He also seems to be very obedient when he is told what to do. Telemachus is an trustworthy, courageous son of Odysseus that is willing to risk his life in order to find his fathers.
ReplyDeleteHomer presents each character differently in the first few books of the Odyssey. Telemachus seems to be lacking the courage and leadership that his father commanded and thus lacks the respect of his subjects. This can be seen through his inability to handle the suitors that are loafing in his courtyards and stealing his wealth. Penelope, the cause of the suitors, at first appears to be a flirt as she leads on many men and is indecisive in choosing a husband. At a further look she appears much more intelligent because her indecisiveness is her attempt at beating the Greek system of marriage. Athena enters the story as a helpful and motivating character. The holder of much wisdom she give Telemachus a plan and also the confidence to lead his people. The reader has mixed emotions about all the characters. Telemachus inspires sympathy but also the sense that he should man up so to speak. Athena seems to be kind and helpful but she may have alterior motives. Penelope seems at first to be playing with the hearts of men but at a closer look she is still waiting and greiving for her husband.
ReplyDeleteHomer paints intriguing pictures of each of these three characters, but it is clear that these images are works in progress. He provides hints and at times even glimpses into changes that may come later in the story.
ReplyDeleteAs I have read, I view Athena as a strong, confident, wise, and persuasive goddess. She demonstrates determination in helping one of her favorite humans, Odysseus. At the same time, it seems that Homer emphasizes her manipulation of situations through her wit and words, rather than the sheer force. For instance, in lines 312-319, she urges Telemachus to "drive the suitors from your halls". She seeks to inspire his action rather than simply causing the desired result through her own abilities.
Similar to what others have mentioned, my first impressions of Telemachus were tainted by his seeming inability to act and create the change in his situation that he desires. He views himself as a victim of the situation, rather than a individual capable of creating change. In contrast though, Homer provides glimpses of his coming growth as a man. In lines 409-414, Telemachus gives his mother directions and speaks of his "reins of power in this house". This, and other similar instances, demonstrate clearly that Telemachus is a work in progress, and creates a sense of sympathy in the reader as one can relate to the growing pains he is experiencing.
Penelope has been a character of confusion and mystery thus far. Homer painted several different pictures: a sorrowful widow, a crafty woman in regards to the suitors, and yet a submissive woman when addressed by her son (line 315). As we discussed Penelope in class, she gained my sympathy in that she is not in control of her fate. Although this is the case, she also appears to be skillfully using any available resources to prolong the inevitable marriage in hope of the return of Odysseus.
Karis Parker
Athena: Homer portrays Athena as the “go-to person” for Telemachus. She helps Telemachus with instruction as to what to do to find his father, as well as offering him encouragement and support along the way. Athena even gets to utilize alternate identities to find out information that her and Telemachus could otherwise not obtain. Despite the feeling of good intentions Homer gives the reader about Athena, I feel that the text hints there is information from the past that needs to be divulged, which will help clarify her intentions, and whether they are good or bad.
ReplyDeletePenelope: At first, Homer portrays Penelope as helpless in regards to her handling her problems with the suitors who take advantage of her hospitality. Initially, her stalling appears to be caused by either her being lazy, or liking the attention she is getting from the suitors (they felt led on by her). Later on though, Homer sheds more light on the situation, and it appears to me as that Penelope is purposely trying to stall the situation with the suitors and will not do anything about them, because she cannot completely control the situation. I believe that Penelops is stalling is because she is anticipating the return of Odysseus so that she does not have to marry off to another man.
Telemachus: Homer portrays Telemachus as the main protagonist for the moment in these opening chapters in the Odyssey. However, it is also a story of development and maturation for Telemachus. Homer portrays him as young, helpless and unable to be able to solve his problems, as he cannot get the suitors to leave his house. It is clear this story will be the development of Telemachus into the Greek ideal of “Manliness” as we discussed in class on Wednesday; it will be his development into someone who is well spoken in public and has honor. We already begin to see the development of Telemachus into the Greek ideal of “Manliness” in the second chapter, as he calls an assembly and intends to confront the suitors there. In the assembly, Telemachus is successful in his opening arguments against the suitors. However, Antinous, one of the suitors, counters, and it becomes clear Telemachus will have to develop further in order to get the suitors to leave.
Athena : Homer really portrays the true characteristics of Athena even through the first book. From class, we learned that Athena is the goddess of wisdom and inspiration. From the reading, Homer really shows these attributes to the reader by disguising herself as several different people throughout the books. These disguises shows her courage, intellect and her skill to quickly get what she wanted. They also show how Athena and Odysseus have a special connection, as discussed in class, and how this influences Athena's actions. For example, giving Telemachus courage, gathering Telemachus' troops for his travel and simply giving him wisdom.
ReplyDeletePenelope : My initial impression of Penelope was first that she was a victim towards her "suitors" and that she was, generally, a pushover to them as well. The "guests" that were staying at Odysseus' house was simply depleting all of the household's resources but she said nothing and did nothing about it. Honestly, I am confused about why she isn't doing anything about it. It seems as though she is presented in a sympathetic way.
Telemachus : My first impression of Telemachus was similar to Penelope's representation. Telemachus seemed to be unmanly, without courage and a confused boy throughout the reading until Athena came along. He let the suitors come into his home and go through all of their household's belongings without doing anything about it. It wasn't until Athena came to inspire him to kick all the suitors out of the home. From reading this, I noticed that this classic will involve someway of making Telemachus into a man.
Homer presents Athena as a powerful goddess who is both wise and crafty. Athena uses these traits to achieve her own goals in as direct a manner as possible. When faced with the issue of the suitors she suggests the best course of action is to kill them. She is very much portrayed as the driving force in the first few books, Telemachus or the story would not have gotten far without her. I do not know how the story of the Odyssey continues; but I feel that Athena is only interested in her own ends and it is just fortunate for Odysseus and his family that he has found her favor.
ReplyDeleteTelemachus is quite helpless when he is first introduced. Not until he is urged by Athena to, "not cling to your boyhood any longer", does he decide to do anything decisive. He may have felt bound by Greek traditions, but I do not think Homer was showing him in a sympathetic light.
At first glance, Penelope may seem to be the root of the problem of the suitors in this narrative. However, with knowledge of Greek society in hand, it seems that she is simply trying to buy time in the hope that Odysseus returns. Though she does not express it in the same way, she may herself feel as plagued by the suitors as Telemachus. Penelope is portrayed as the ideal Greek Woman; intelligent and also loyal to Odysseus.
My initial impression of each of the characters was very different.
ReplyDeleteAthena is represented as a "bright-eyed" female deity. She takes charge of a situation and inspires those around her. Athena is the benefactor of main character, Odysseus, and she has the courage to ask her father, Zeus, to see to Odysseus' welfare. She is the driving force behind most of the plot of the book.
Penelope is portrayed as a beautiful scheming woman. She is powerless, unlike Athena, as she cannot take charge of the situation of the suitors. But she is smart, and finds other ways have the situation turn in her favor. I was unsure if she was supposed to be faithful to Odysseus or not. Her situation makes me feel compassion for her, as she cannot choose what she wants to do.
Telemachus is portrayed as a young man, going through the transition of boyhood and manhood. At first, he is weak and a pushover, as the suitors are probably much older than him. But he takes charge after Athena inspired him to do otherwise. It seems that he will become like his father, Odysseus, also favored by Athena. His transformation seems to be a central theme of the book.
Telemachus: as a young man with a father potentially lost, he has won my sympathy. Also, from the ways he is portrayed--uncertain, yet charismatic thanks to Pallas Athena--Telemachus has won my respect. His struggle does not hold him down from moving onward as he begins to take charge in place for his great father Odysseus.
ReplyDeleteAthena: certainly a goddess of wisdom, she plays a key role in guiding Telemachus. I really appreciate her role in the plot because she is a source of courage which Telemachus definitely feeds off of. She helps form the character Telemachus is eventually meant to be and it drives the story.
Penelope: Though at times, she seems weary and afraid, she is a strong and wise woman. I really admire her faithfulness to Odysseus, certainly an attribute to be imitated after. I feel like she could have a more dominant role in the story; however, it seems that sexism exists in Homer's depiction of women, which seems quite obvious in the "vulnerable" image of Penelope.
Athena - I have mixed feeling about this character. She seems kind and loving towards Odysseus and his family, taking special care to intervene for him before Zeus and taking care of Telemachus. However, I think that it's important to remember that she is still a powerful goddess, and like all the gods is prone to anger and vengeance.
ReplyDeletePenelope - I have mixed feelings about this character as well. She seems very much to be a motivated person, though it's hard to tell what her motives are. She is definitely tampering with the social system by not choosing a suitor. If she is doing this because she waiting for her husbands return, she is a very wise and noble woman. If she is doing this just to lord her power over the suitors, then she seems to be a very foolish character (because she is squandering her sons inheritance by allowing the suitors to devour their stores).
Telemachus - Telemachus seems to be timid and wary, but kind and hospitable. He is not brave enough to confront his mother's suitors and protect his inheritance and seems uncomfortable in a leadership position (thus Athena does many of the leader's job such as rounding up the sailors), but I believe that this may change in the story (like Athena may be preparing him to take the reigns in his life). He is, however, very hospitable to Athena, which I believe shows us a lot about his character's goodness.
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ReplyDeleteAthena:Athena is portrayed to be a goddess who cares, who has a genuine concern for not just Odysseus but his household as well. She manages the suitors in the way they ought to be, she drives them out of the home. I believe Athena does the majority of these acts for the greater good and out of pity for Odysseus.
ReplyDeletePenelope: Thus far Penelope seems to be an indifferent character attempting to separate herself from the traditional sense of society. She is desires to have control of her life and even though she does not enjoy the suitors presence they provide a temporary state of freedom. She seems to be an opportunist unwilling to fully submit to the authorities above her. She is a forward thinking women who the men of the city seem to have trouble containing, most of all her son Telemachus.
Telemachus: He is a strong-minded young man, however, he seems to easily lose his will and ability to confront his opposition without the help of Athena. He is a honorable man in the sense of his commitment to his house's hospitality and is attempting to step into the leadership he is called to, as he is the son of a king. He is favored by the gods, especially Athena.
Athena: Homer presents Athena in a way that shows her strengths and her wisdom. She helps Odysseus by helping his son and this proves that she cares for his future as well as his families future. She is very smart and adaptable and Homer shows this by portraying Athena gathering the crew for Telemachus' voyage. She protects him as he travels and this is a great trait that she shows.
ReplyDeletePenelope: Penelope is portrayed as helpless and ignorant to her suitors. But behind the facade we (the reader) can see that she is neither. She attempts to control her own destiny by undoing her work everyday. This shows that she is loyal to Odysseus and does not yet have closure to his disappearance. She cares a lot about her son and wants him to be safe.
Telemachus: Telemachus is a man who is searching. Athena is the one who really gets him motivated to go and search for Odysseus but he shows genuine concern by going on the voyage. He feels the need to appease his mothers suitors even if that means losing everything.